NAD+ Explained: Precursors, Supplements, IV Therapy and What Actually Works

00:00:00: If you were to just take NAD out, You would literally collapse within a second and it will be over.

00:00:05: There are some wild protocols floating around on the internet.

00:00:08: that was even able to restore fertility in men.

00:00:11: It's super clear.

00:00:12: I mean at forty you have like half of the level you had at twenty.

00:00:15: i can still remember The picture he sent our whatsapp group after the niacin with the flush Yeah right here On the neck.

00:00:22: Then why should pay four hundred euros for an infusion Especially since oral supplementation is so much easier?

00:00:33: Hello and welcome to a new episode of Beyond Lifespan.

00:00:35: Hey Max!

00:00:38: Today we're talking about NAD+.

00:00:41: It's probably one the most well-known molecules in the entire longevity space.

00:00:45: I'd say, certainly not with the biggest impact.

00:00:48: those are basic molecules that have already been discussed so many times But it's one that gets a lot of attention, where a lot is happening on the product side.

00:00:56: A lot has been written about and also research being done.

00:01:00: fortunately because this isn't always the case... ...that the hype matched by the research but with NAD+.

00:01:06: That definitely is the case.

00:01:09: And let us say blurriness or first terminology we might need to clarify.

00:01:17: There are NAD+, and there're NADH.

00:01:21: Right.

00:01:21: there are products for both right.

00:01:23: There are NAD plus boosters and NAD Plus supplements, but they're also NAD H products And many people often don't really understand okay?

00:01:33: What is actually the difference?

00:01:35: why should I work in one direction?

00:01:37: Why should i work in the other direction?

00:01:39: and I think we do well to separate them a bit.

00:01:43: yeah what Actually Is NAD and what actually is NADH?

00:01:46: right?

00:01:46: because They actually belong together inseparably or they are inseparably linked.

00:01:53: I think you can say that?

00:01:55: Yeah, so NAD+, first of all the plus already indicates it's somehow positively charged.

00:02:00: let's say right

00:02:01: If someone has at least a bit chemistry background there is always plus and minus.

00:02:05: So plus is positive exactly And NADH.

00:02:10: just have this hydrogen atom on top which acts as an electron so to speak.

00:02:16: What actually happens in the mitochondrion, where NAD is so important.

00:02:20: In the mitochondria and the powerhouse of the cell... Where energy's produced these reactions are constantly happening which I called redox reactions.

00:02:29: that means it's reduced and oxidized And whenever its reduced a hydrogen atom.

00:02:34: So an electron Is added?

00:02:37: Whenever it's oxidised The exact opposite happens It's taken away.

00:02:43: Exactly.

00:02:45: That actually happens all the time and is extremely important as an energy source, right?

00:02:51: The problem is why are there these two versions.

00:02:56: We need NAD+, we needed a bit of substrate for all this processes.

00:03:01: that means NADH... ...that's well-and-good, the electron has already on their.. ..we always needs sufficient supply of NAD.

00:03:07: so they have the substrate for reactions.

00:03:12: NADH cannot exist without NAD and NAD cannot exist with NAD H. They constantly switch between each other, but it can also happen that you have an excess in one direction for example That you have a lot of NADh and too little NAD And that can have various reasons.

00:03:28: It could be that let's say just ran An extremely hard marathon or something right?

00:03:34: Then A lot of nad is consumed and also converted into NAD h But really consumed.

00:03:40: Then is the moment where you say, okay.

00:03:42: Yeah there's actually a bit too little NAD plus here right?

00:03:45: And that's why people talk about all these topics.

00:03:47: yeah You could supplement That There Could Be A Deficiency.

00:03:51: But Actually What You Need To Know First Is NAD Plus NADH.

00:03:54: It'S Just A Continuous Cycle but They Can Be An Excess In One Direction Or The Other and that's Why People Talk About All These Topics.

00:04:07: But actually what you need to know first is NAD plus, NADH.

00:04:10: It's just a continuous cycle but there can be an excess in one direction or the other.

00:04:14: Yeah In the mitochondria and cellular powerhouses.

00:04:17: There is this respiratory chain right where lot of electrons are needed as we already said And the NAD H then gives off the electron becomes NAD Plus again.

00:04:27: The most exciting thing Is that NAD PLUS is limiting factor.

00:04:31: So if don't have enough NADPLUS Then this process practically comes into standstill because the NAD plus then becomes NADH again and the NED H can give off the electron.

00:04:40: And you would actually think it's important that we always have enough NAD H, but the limiting factor biochemically is actually NAD+, I found very interesting!

00:04:54: Namely, NAD+, doesn't just have this function in energy metabolism.

00:04:57: In the energy cycle that is the citric acid cycle and how it works but has many other functions right?

00:05:02: We talk every now-and then about The Book Lifespan by David Sinclair And he also described the sirtuins in his longevity pathways.

00:05:09: And sirtunes are very relevant for topics like DNA repair For example... And for sirtoons to function correctly they need NAD+.

00:05:16: as a coenzyme.

00:05:17: A coenzym is ultimately always what ensures That chemical reaction can take place more easily And NAD+, is a very, very important co-enzyme for these satoons.

00:05:26: Satoons are family of quote unquote longevity genes because they're very relevant to that and there's also another DNA repair system in those other pops.

00:05:35: you don't have remember.

00:05:36: some might've heard about it.

00:05:38: For this POPs, NAD++ is an important cofactor which means the pops can work better if we had sufficient NAD+.

00:05:48: So DNA repair is an important topic and NAD also plays a role in the circadian rhythm, right?

00:05:53: For our twenty-four hour rhythm for day at night or sleep wake cycle.

00:05:59: For example you can see that in the morning the NAD level is at its highest.

00:06:02: That's when you have this physiological peak And all molecules that follow a circadian pattern to some extent which is also the case with cortisol Or melatonin.

00:06:12: They are then also involved in the regulation of this rhythm and NAD is also very important there, but that cannot replace NADH.

00:06:23: That means for these functions we really need NAD+.

00:06:28: With energy one always transitions into the other.

00:06:30: where you have this constant cycle when it comes to DNA repair or certuance... We really needed NAD+, so sufficient levels are so well researched.

00:06:42: I'd say

00:06:44: Exactly!

00:06:44: And because of First of all, that all sounds amazing.

00:06:48: What I've always found to be a really fascinating anecdote is that it's actually true... ...that without NAD the body doesn't function.

00:06:54: That means if you were just remove NAD... ...hypothetically right?

00:06:57: You would literally collapse within a second and it will just be over There are no capacity left to live!

00:07:04: That why NADs present in virtually living organisms.

00:07:08: So its something evolutionary from single-celled organisms a super, super relevant topic.

00:07:18: Now there are... to transition into this bit There are many different ways that NAD is produced.

00:07:28: There's the pathway via Vitamin B-III right?

00:07:31: That very prominent one.

00:07:32: for example Many people have probably heard of that vitamin b-III niacin or nicotinamide but then also other pathways which are more direct meaning via a salvage pathway where it's really recycled all the time, but can also be obtained from the amino acid tryptophan.

00:07:48: So there are these different pathways.

00:07:51: and now its quite interesting that pelagra which is a vitamin B-III deficiency is also type of NAD deficiency disease.

00:08:02: Pelagra people kind know it or rather don't really know anymore.

00:08:07: you only know in areas with malnutrition.

00:08:10: Or I think it was also a big deal in the US because they ate an extreme amount of corn and then just corn.

00:08:16: And that simply leads to yeah, that's a super chronic inflammatory disease.

00:08:20: Then you just have a vitamin B three deficiency.

00:08:22: And therefore also an NAD deficiency.

00:08:25: Then you have inflammation everywhere.

00:08:27: your skin is inflamed You have diarrhea?

00:08:29: You really don't feel good and you can't keep up cognitively either.

00:08:33: and There you can actually see how incredibly NAD plays into every process in the body somehow Right.

00:08:40: And it's just unbelievably relevant.

00:08:43: Yes, and with these you already spoke about the pathways sort of about the salvage pathway which is also so about this recycling pathway Which is very important because a large part of the NAD Is actually recycled in the body.

00:08:54: Um...and These processes three production variants they all function A bit weaker over time Of course right?

00:09:04: Then something else comes into play when It comes to maintaining the NAD level in the body, then it's sometimes not just about production right but also consumption and so on.

00:09:18: So there are very many different starting points.

00:09:20: we will come back later when it comes to keeping the NED up somehow.

00:09:25: In any case its a very important molecule.

00:09:27: that is actually what you want us say with that And sometimes reduce this energy topic because Obviously plays an important role there too and also interacts with this NAD age.

00:09:39: But NAD plus is just very, very much more right energy might be what you feel in the end when or experience?

00:09:45: When you have a sufficiently high vitamin vitamin D. I'm saying now NAD Plus level yes but basically The effects are very very much profound.

00:09:57: it's about repair processes It's about maintenance processes when you think of DNA.

00:10:03: So symptoms of pellagra are also that you have like skin symptoms, that you practically get an inflammation of the skin basically right?

00:10:14: Of the dermis.

00:10:17: That just shows how dependent we are on this molecule and thats why it's somehow logical.

00:10:23: at some point over time when people looked at their body or function they then realized It's not just a magnesium that super relevant because it is also somehow involved in three hundred metabolic reactions or vitamin D, but there are something else and that is NAD.

00:10:39: That is certainly much newer than all the other molecules that were otherwise perhaps known as supplement or dietary supplements seen.

00:10:46: But this has its justification we talk about right?

00:10:49: Because of very broad functionality.

00:10:55: And the thing with pelagra, I also found that quite exciting because you know it mostly as a vitamin B-three deficiency disease and that NAD obviously also plays a role there.

00:11:07: It can be causal for this disease is actually only logical.

00:11:12: Yes so in end they belong together

00:11:14: right?

00:11:16: Now the NAD level.

00:11:17: it doesn't remain constant over time, right?

00:11:20: But it decreases overtime and quite significantly.

00:11:23: We've also seen that internally with a with an NAD test.

00:11:27: we also have very large internal study running With almost one thousand subjects who are gone through it And there you actually see something I think is exciting.

00:11:37: That's more significant than in women.

00:11:44: until now hasn't actually been researched that well.

00:11:46: So yes, it goes down in both but the dynamics are different.

00:11:51: I found that exciting too.

00:11:52: yeah i mean there's still a ton to look into their um because in women It could also be at least That's a hypothesis that NAD levels also fluctuate throughout The menstrual cycle.

00:12:04: that means though whole topic is much more complex for woman.

00:12:07: But then again There are indications and smaller animals that it's incredibly good For having babies, let's say for well fertility exactly.

00:12:17: That's the word I was looking for meaning it was even able to restore fertility there Even in very old mice and that's obviously a wild mix right.

00:12:28: so you see okay somehow an aging women First of all You have these probably cycle dependent differences.

00:12:35: then as they age They actually have much less drastic drop than men

00:12:38: do fertility

00:12:40: And yet it is so incredibly important for fertility.

00:12:44: I'm really excited to see what else will happen there, you can already see that many doctors are using in fertility clinics and just testing it out okay?

00:12:50: Can we maybe squeeze a few more percent with this right especially people who're having hard time but still have wait-and-see only these initial indications.

00:13:03: So its mostly preclinical But still, it's already being used in practice as you said by some clinics.

00:13:12: By some gynecologists who obviously work with women who have fertility issues because that is just a problem of our time and doesn't affect women but also men because sperm quality is getting so much worse.

00:13:25: That why I'm not aware any study which has investigated NAD+, sperm-quality in man or anything.

00:13:31: That's more of a definitely female topic, but the

00:13:35: know one either.

00:13:36: Yeah

00:13:36: we definitely have to keep an eye on it right?

00:13:37: I think i wouldn't overhype just yet But in practice It's definitely already being done and used And whether there will be a big study on it at some point I don't know if something is already running.

00:13:50: um...I-i think that would At least be Something that uh..the ethics committee Would probably accept.

00:13:55: quite well Right!

00:13:56: I see fewer issues with that.

00:13:58: Its also obvious use case just with this data that's already floating around from animals, right?

00:14:06: That you could easily imagine.

00:14:06: Okay it at least... Yeah squeeze out another ten percent Right!

00:14:10: That would be awesome too.

00:14:11: You see fewer issues.

00:14:12: It is also an obvious use case Just with the data that has been floating around From animal, from animals

00:14:16: Right?!

00:14:18: That you can easily imagine Atleast squeeze-out another ten per cent.

00:14:24: No exactly.

00:14:24: and thats why for women somehow not quite as clear cut for men, right?

00:14:28: And it's super clear-cut.

00:14:29: I mean by forty.

00:14:30: you have like half the level at twenty and that is pretty crazy.

00:14:33: so

00:14:34: surprisingly crazy also surprising how consistent this is.

00:14:38: what really interesting there we know from internal studies just some of data already pulled in Lithuania.

00:14:46: It seems to be a case especially athletes meaning people who are very active.

00:14:50: The NAD levels holds up well throughout life in people who tend to have chronic illnesses, diabetes and so on.

00:14:59: It tends to drop off earlier... ...and is also generally lower right?

00:15:04: And you can already see.

00:15:05: okay it all makes sense somehow!

00:15:06: On the one hand with the athlete sure they consume a lot but do help produce NAD by exercising and boosting these fast pathways.

00:15:18: That makes sense in a way, and at the same time it make sense that with chronic inflammation which is definitely an extreme NAD consumer.

00:15:25: It's lower there.

00:15:26: so its logical anyway.

00:15:27: mm-hmm I mean especially with exercise.

00:15:30: we have so many feedback loops.

00:15:32: Loops in the body right?

00:15:34: So when the body gets to signal hey i need more now... ...that's the case with exercise When it comes muscle building but also with other processes.

00:15:41: let say There always a feedback mechanism like that And thats why it also made sense for me.

00:15:46: when you have the stimulus, I'm moving now and need more energy.

00:15:49: If you do that regularly use signal to the body.

00:15:52: okay my baseline needs to be higher than person bees who doesn't move at all simply because the body is used to having to provide this energy When i go running ,when i go cycling And so on & So forth or when i go swimming.

00:16:06: That's why it definitely makes sense but its also nice.

00:16:08: You actually see in studies It not just theoretical derivation as is often the case But that is also very.

00:16:18: you can explain that very well and with all the other things chronic illness.

00:16:23: It practically always goes hand in hand with inflammation, You have to say right.

00:16:26: so diabetes causes inflammation if you have atherosclerosis That's also an inflammatory process To some extent.

00:16:32: write it starts with inflammation in the vessel walls And so on and so forth.

00:16:35: that something very systemic and that mostly runs via CD.

00:16:39: thirty eight That that's not.

00:16:43: it's not the Bravo hits volume right but CD stands for cluster of differentiation.

00:16:47: It's just a marker on cells, the exciting part.

00:17:13: And when this activity increases, and with age we know anyway that we all get much more inflamed... That's I think a normal process.

00:17:21: it is not always pathological right?

00:17:24: So if you measure HSCRP in its in-the-normal range no doctor going to tell your sick now Right!

00:17:33: Still We Know Of Course It Is Bad To Have Even Low Grade.

00:17:36: Inflammation also contributes to a low NAD level, plus what I said earlier.

00:17:42: These these three pathways price handler pathway salvage pathway and so on and so forth they also work

00:17:48: where NAD is produced.

00:17:49: exactly were any D is produced thanks They Also function worse And that means it's A very Very big interplay right?

00:17:57: It's the production gets weaker The consumption gets higher and That's why it also becomes harder for the body To counteract this.

00:18:06: And yeah, the result is simply a declining NAD plus level.

00:18:11: That's very good

00:18:13: exactly due to inflamaging.

00:18:14: that's probably the main cause for it and we actually forgot.

00:18:19: A third point The consumption of NAD also increases not only because CD-Thirty eight drains more NAD Plus due to inflammation.

00:18:29: But we also know that we come into the world with relatively intact DNA right and from day one, the bombardment form.

00:18:37: From the outside actually starts in dna damage becomes more frequent right?

00:18:43: And need for repair keeps growing.

00:18:45: We said at beginning sirtuins are super important.

00:18:48: parps is very important for this dna repair.

00:18:51: That's why it simply consumed more now.

00:18:55: three different pathways that lower NAD over time, or especially with age.

00:19:04: That affect everyone.

00:19:05: so that's a completely normal process right?

00:19:07: So even if some have more DNA damage than others Everyone has DNA damage and the body always tries to repair it For that for that...that is why we also get as old As We Get Old Because We Have Such Sophisticated And Clever Systems.

00:19:23: Sometimes Something Goes Wrong Right!

00:19:25: Thats When Cancer Develops

00:19:28: That affect everyone

00:19:29: or abnormal cells develop.

00:19:31: but basically NAD is also very, very relevant for that.

00:19:36: And what happens then?

00:19:37: right now you have a low-low NAD level and people have looked at various I'll call them situations where people have a lower NAD plus Level.

00:19:49: yeah exactly so i mean this.

00:19:51: of course all still Very very anecdotal i would say.

00:19:54: So i mean sure with with pelagra You kind of know.

00:19:58: The rest is just a bit anecdotal or what we already mentioned.

00:20:01: Yeah, sure it goes hand-in-hand with diabetes and so on.

00:20:04: but I think that's more of consequence unless have causal relationship right necessarily.

00:20:09: But then again i can also imagine if you increase NAD It could at least help to deal the damage.

00:20:17: So now its such That one could assume Because the mitochondria don't really has this fuel anymore This NAD And doesn't enough that it could be, you just have a bit of drop in performance.

00:20:30: Feel tired and potentially can't produce enough energy there anymore.

00:20:37: That's the theory.

00:20:38: There is to be honest no really clear data out there yet In my view.

00:20:45: Then of course You could assume if you had too little NAD.

00:20:49: So next point.

00:20:50: we are again at topic of repair.

00:20:53: You already mentioned this too little NAD, can these repair processes even take place properly?

00:21:00: So doesn't the risk for abnormalities or cancer actually maybe increase if the NAD level is too low in the long term.

00:21:06: Maybe right it's also not one hundred percent clear Right In our study that we're doing.

00:21:11: at least It didn't turn out that the NID Level Is lower in Cancer patients although its a very small cohort.

00:21:19: and then of course there are tons Of other diseases That could go hand-in-hand with Or that could result from.

00:21:24: it means We talked about Palagra.

00:21:26: What if the NAD deficiency is only very mildly pronounced, couldn't maybe things like skin aging and so on also play a role there?

00:21:37: Could maybe also gut health be an issue because it's just such a fundamental molecule.

00:21:43: Frankly we don't know for sure they are just hypothetical assumptions.

00:21:54: You can break it down very simply and show there are two things we know relatively well, right?

00:21:59: One is the NAD level decreases with age.

00:22:03: And Two Is There Are Certain Diseases And Mostly Inflammatory Diseases Like Diabetes And Asthma And Osteoporosis Where It Has Been Found That People Have A Lower NAD Level.

00:22:15: At The Same Time You Also Know That People Who Are Active Healthy Do Sports Have A Higher NAD LEVEL.

00:22:22: Of course, I've

00:22:22: correlated with good health.

00:22:24: Exactly and the bridge in between that is still relatively theoretical.

00:22:29: right which connects these two sides are called them.

00:22:34: but at the same time That's also a bridge that a lot of longevity research relies on.

00:22:39: so we don't know one hundred percent yet.

00:22:43: theoretically you would say yes it makes sense to increase their NAD level Because in healthy fit people you find a high NAD level and sick.

00:22:52: People, You find the low NAD Level but whether now A equals so it leads to BB leads to C But where they also needs to see at The same time we actually don't know yet right?

00:23:02: So their evidence is practically still missing there.

00:23:05: Whether you say It Is causal.

00:23:06: so NAD is causally responsible for many good things happening Right that?

00:23:12: That is practically this because I was

00:23:14: actually not clear at all, right?

00:23:16: So I also believe that it's often even more of a consequence.

00:23:19: But that doesn't necessarily mean That It can't Also help to increase it anyway.

00:23:24: but we don't know Right We just Don't Know.

00:23:27: What i hadn't mentioned yet is yeah...I already Mentioned fatigue..but also things like brain fog general endurance.

00:23:34: Those could All be other issues associated with it.

00:23:37: so its ultra broad theory is Ultra Broad.

00:23:41: in practice though We only really know these two Things.

00:23:45: And that is a bit of, I think the problem that NAD still has right now.

00:23:49: It's something that could have an extreme amount of potential.

00:23:55: but firstly who was going to fund it so that it actually gets out there?

00:24:00: Right and this actually investigated in large scale studies um...and secondly well no actually just the first one yeah

00:24:11: maybe uh..so that won't happen with conventional supplements i'll say Because same problem as always, right?

00:24:19: Who has an interest in something coming out of that.

00:24:24: But you can already see in the US they are which is also what David Sinclair doing at Harvard and he's researching or rather actually with a kind of privately spun off company I'll say so there was commercial interests behind it.

00:24:40: They took a modified version of NMN, which is now practically being investigated as a drug in the US.

00:24:47: Which was also why NMM was temporarily... What do you mean?

00:24:52: Temporarily for few years not officially so in America not officially approved as supplement In Europe.

00:24:58: it's still chemical and I could well imagine since that something you can patent That there will then be intervention studies Because there is commercial interest behind it, and that

00:25:10: will perhaps finally reveal exactly these points.

00:25:13: Yeah And since the if something comes out of that The significance is actually the same.

00:25:17: right because the molecule has one use case?

00:25:20: That Is that it increases the NAD level or rather than that as the effect It would have in the body.

00:25:26: and If Something Comes Out Of That In The End I think There Are Already Certain Effects That Can Be Transferred To All The Other NAD Boosters Out There In The World.

00:25:35: Right, because the use case of.

00:25:39: The potential drug is an NAD increase.

00:25:42: and if there are also other molecules that increased the NAD level then?

00:25:46: That will I think be decided one way or another in the next few years And they're we'll all so being intervention study and that would also mean humans right Because he would earn money with humans not with house rats and what do you call them guinea pigs.

00:26:03: we will see a bit of something there.

00:26:05: But, of course the interest won't be overwhelming right?

00:26:07: We won't see fifty intervention studies in the next five years.

00:26:09: unfortunately That would.

00:26:11: that would have cost be nice.

00:26:13: There are always these interventions studies also with NMN and NR but they're all super small.

00:26:18: And I think is the main problem where things can really work out.

00:26:23: because if only sixty-seventy people or even just one hundred The effect probably still not so big that you can really work it out significantly with so few people.

00:26:36: i think that is a very big problem.

00:26:39: I wouldn't say at all, the effect sizes are usually lower in very large cohorts but its just selective right?

00:26:51: With such small sample Set a very rough direction in which it's supposed to go.

00:26:57: Which people do you are the younger?

00:26:58: Are they older people?

00:26:59: of course with older People who tend to already have lower vitamin D levels, You will have a larger effect size NAD and In that respect I think It's something NAD.

00:27:11: no Of course.

00:27:11: so i mean

00:27:12: So the potential for variance is much larger.

00:27:14: was such as small sample And usually epidemiological studies always had very Small effects sizes.

00:27:18: but because five hundred thousand people are lumped together, right?

00:27:22: That was no

00:27:22: sure.

00:27:23: Sure if it's epidemiological of course makes sense.

00:27:26: you're right exactly yes in the next step um You naturally ask yourself the question.

00:27:31: okay now we've understood.

00:27:32: that is actually already very interesting.

00:27:34: sure experimental but interesting.

00:27:38: Where do I start?

00:27:39: well ideally with measuring Um i would claim because you want to know at all.

00:27:44: Does it make sense for me For me personally To supplement NAD at all or maybe do an infusion, whatever.

00:27:54: How can I measure it?

00:27:56: Yeah so when it comes to measuring It's not like you could go your GP and then say yeah And i'd also like to have vitamin D determined alongside LPA HB-one C Or some normal complete blood count.

00:28:08: right because very many men So the vast majority of labs don't even offer that by now.

00:28:13: there are probably a few specialized labs where you can have the value determined but usually i think majority of these n ad measurements still run via at home tests that currently on the market one we also have.

00:28:26: Also from other providers.

00:28:27: those are then classic dry blood spot test.

00:28:30: in vast majority cases right no card like that with two circles.

00:28:35: always fill the circles.

00:28:36: that is I think most important thing, No matter which dry blood spot test you do and where you get it from, please always fill the circles that's not on there for fun.

00:28:44: Otherwise The result is simply not meaningful right?

00:28:47: That is unfortunately sometimes a shame when people send something like that in And then its like the circle has a diameter of about one-and-a-half centimeters Then theres half a centimeter On It.

00:29:01: I mean thats doesn't work.

00:29:02: Thats i think obvious.

00:29:04: But Its still a shame because these tests they are still very expensive Not only to buy but of course also to analyze.

00:29:11: right because you don't have these volumes yet that you have with a blood sugar value.

00:29:20: That's why in the end, it is also function over time.

00:29:22: so they will certainly get cheaper.

00:29:25: and because your also practically come down into analysis just know that such an NAD test still something very expensive costs somewhere range from one hundred fifty to four hundred euros.

00:29:35: its all on market.

00:29:37: In the end, you sometimes get only total NADs.

00:29:41: Sometimes you get a ratio displayed which we also talked about at the beginning.

00:29:44: NAD plus NADH... ...sometimes you also get both reported separately and so on and so forth.

00:29:51: So there is a certain range.

00:29:53: that's why it has to be a price range but the analysis still very expensive.

00:29:58: That always takes time because with a lab its practical You go to the doctor The lab measures The next day or two days later, you get your values.

00:30:07: That's how it is in the vast majority of cases.

00:30:10: unless You have to cultivate a bacterial culture then It just takes a few A few days more.

00:30:14: but that Is now I think also not the classic longevity use case and thats why um...you still Have the transit included?

00:30:21: It has To be sent to the lab!

00:30:23: It Has to Be evaluated In the Lab!

00:30:25: Thats Also Not Done Every Day And so on & So forth.

00:30:28: Those are Still A bit Of Perks That You Simply Still Have In the context of an NAD plus or in the context on any D-plus measurement.

00:30:36: Exactly, so you're basically one.

00:30:39: not that many people doing this.

00:30:40: far exactly but there are already a few labs to do.

00:30:44: it probably wouldn't be available yet at most doctors offices which means you have take things into your own hands if you'd like and I would definitely recommend always measuring first before blindly supplement course.

00:30:59: you can also go with mindset okay I'll just start supplementing and see if i feel some kind of benefit.

00:31:06: Ideally you'd feel it after a few weeks, If You Have A Deficiency at least that's the experience right?

00:31:11: But measuring can make sense in that okay.

00:31:15: where did you stand before And Where Do You Stand After?

00:31:18: Was It Really Because Your NAD Level Increased Or Did You Just Have A Placebo Effect Right?

00:31:22: So From My Point Of View You Can Also Save Yourself A Lot Of Money In The Long Run If Doesn't Make Much Sense For You Personally As Always Its Individual

00:31:31: Exactly, these tests which is maybe still important even if you do them at the doctors and the doctor happens to work with a lab that measures NAD plus are always an out-of-pocket expense.

00:31:42: So no private health insurance regardless of the plan.

00:31:45: it's going to say fine we'll pay for that right?

00:31:50: It's just too new.

00:31:52: so in There's still a bit that needs to happen over time.

00:31:56: But I could also imagine something like this will eventually establish itself as the standard marker, maybe not part of routine checkup but in connection with certain illnesses and see if there is need?

00:32:08: I'm thinking about chronic fatigue for example or symptoms such as an energy issue which may have to do with inflammation although you can answer your question beforehand without doing test.

00:32:21: If you have inflammation NAD would be lower.

00:32:24: But still it just makes sense to have a baseline value.

00:32:27: With the costs, you're not going to do every three months check like with statin therapy if your high LDL measure more frequently You probably wouldn't do that with NAD but measuring is always useful.

00:32:43: That's why you should definitely consider something in the direction of NAD.

00:32:49: also NAD boosting supplementation consider whether it wouldn't be worth investing the money to measure something.

00:33:00: That's important, now I've done the NAD test right?

00:33:05: It kind of came back okay within this normal range.

00:33:11: should i do anything about it ?

00:33:14: I don't think its absolutely necessary.

00:33:16: um...it depends a bit on what you're striving for.

00:33:21: so if your someone who has very dynamic life um, who has a lot of stress.

00:33:26: Um then it can still make sense to go into it.

00:33:30: if you uh just want to get more out of it and feel like okay i'm more into enhancement here than in simple prevention let's say.

00:33:40: but we can't guarantee now that something like repair mechanisms or whatever will actually work better.

00:33:46: I mean you can't do that anyway.

00:33:48: But then It's definitely also unlikely right?

00:33:50: That it will necessarily Work super well Have a huge impact for you, right?

00:33:55: So the impact will just be smaller.

00:33:57: if You have a deficiency.

00:33:57: I think it's very clear then you should definitely try It.

00:34:00: why?

00:34:01: Because maybe it's a bigger level than you thought

00:34:04: Right

00:34:05: and Then you should at least try.

00:34:06: If it's normal now i'd say depends A bit on where you see yourself And how much do you want to challenge your body.

00:34:13: mm-hmm.

00:34:14: i would perhaps add that if uh if not now somehow If it turns out yes, my NAD level is okay.

00:34:21: It's in the normal range maybe even in the optimal range then I would always also make a bit dependent on that.

00:34:26: Sure goals are one hand right?

00:34:28: There was reason why i did the NAD test at first place.

00:34:32: and secondly the issue of symptoms...I think its very important.

00:34:38: if you say yes ok but don't feel as productive anymore have little energy probably already tried different things NAD is probably not the very first thing I would think of either.

00:34:50: if, If i have symptoms like that.

00:34:53: But if i'm perhaps at the point where I ask myself yes maybe it's the nad level and It's then perhaps okay.

00:34:58: Then i'd still try it right.

00:35:00: because um i'm also always a big fan as you are too Of just trying certain things out for yourself Because we are far to...I mean We Are Far Too Individual For Me To Now draw anything definitive for myself from a one hundred thousand person study, right?

00:35:15: Because even in the one-hundredthousand that's exactly always the problem.

00:35:18: That... For the individual it is so meaningless because among those people there were maybe fifty thousand who did nothing but may be it helped ten thousands of people alot and this effect then simply reduced across these large cohorts.

00:35:37: let's say sweep in front of your own door and try to break it down, test very individually for yourself.

00:35:43: And maybe will do something right?

00:35:46: If you get an effect then always keep taking it otherwise just letting be.

00:35:50: I think the financial damage is limited In that respect.

00:35:54: i think thats something you should definitely do.

00:35:59: Good now we are perhaps at this deficiency issue.

00:36:02: Now the NAD level Is a bit too low.

00:36:05: lets say independent age Because there are also these reference ranges.

00:36:09: They're also corrected for age.

00:36:11: that means you won't if we do a test now and aren't even thirty yet, We won't be compared to an eighty year old And then we look super good.

00:36:19: That's also the point of the matter with all other lab values by the way It's relatively similar.

00:36:25: If there is this dynamic over time?

00:36:26: That is perhaps very Very important With LDL.

00:36:31: That's not the case right.

00:36:32: if I measure my LDL meaning my cholesterol at fifteen and at eighty five then the reference value is always the same.

00:36:39: Because it's not like that there.

00:36:41: probably on average, The LDL level increases over time.

00:36:44: I would guess.

00:36:46: still That's not reflected in a lab values with NAD however It Is and Then you'd probably think okay what can i actually do now to boost NAD?

00:36:58: To increase NAD there are many different approaches because they're also many different mechanisms why nade decreases.

00:37:07: right, we already said you can target production.

00:37:10: You can target consumption meaning the utilization of of nade and u um can try to boost endogenous productions.

00:37:20: so not just supplying precursors but making sure that nade is maybe utilized a bit better recycled in the body.

00:37:28: yeah i think I'll start with the boring ones the lifestyle factors, right?

00:37:33: We've already mentioned a bit that we see in the data.

00:37:36: Okay people who do a lot of sports or are athletic they tend to have higher NAD levels and old age too.

00:37:43: That means it definitely makes sense to just exercise regularly And that also includes endurance training.

00:37:48: so cardio-training two and not just strength training.

00:37:50: It's the mix that does it!

00:37:52: You can assume this will increase NAD Levels In The Medium Term Certainly Not As Fast as A Real Booster But It Will Increase.

00:38:01: Another topic, I also briefly touched on that at the beginning and that hits a similar note because exercise also targets many pathways that fasting also plays on.

00:38:12: And that fasting is quite good for NAD.

00:38:14: That means you can see okay if you put animals in particular on fasting diets.

00:38:20: So whether it's a ketogenic diet or even proper intermittent fasting then the NAD level rises.

00:38:25: so that is definitely an option.

00:38:27: Just to caveat You shouldn't do fasting every day right, and not all the time either.

00:38:32: That means it's a bit difficult in a ketogenic diet forever.

00:38:37: so those aren't long-term solutions either.

00:38:39: that means exercise is actually significantly better here.

00:38:43: And then there's the last one which is sleep also A very very very sensible solution.

00:38:47: why?

00:38:47: because NAD Is a very strongly circadian molecule?

00:38:51: That means It's during the night.

00:38:54: During the night it slowly goes back up Then it peaks in the morning when you wake up.

00:39:01: And if you sleep well, you tend to have better NAD levels too.

00:39:04: Tend-to right?

00:39:06: That means sleep and exercise.

00:39:07: those are actually the important things.

00:39:09: theoretically You can also do it short term with diet meaning with fasting regimens ketogenic diet.

00:39:15: So those are the options you have.

00:39:18: If you want to keep it boring Then of course there are a few things that work a bit faster.

00:39:24: That brings us two supplements or oral substances.

00:39:28: We already talked about niacin nicotinamide, which is vitamin B-III at the beginning.

00:39:32: That can increase NAD levels subtly though really only subtly.

00:39:37: It is definitely a building block.

00:39:39: that means NAD can be obtained from Niacin from Nicotinamyde.

00:39:43: So interesting in that regard.

00:39:45: if you theoretically have a deficiency then it Definitely makes a lot of sense and practice to supplement that.

00:39:52: If there's no deficiency it probably won't have huge impact on NAD Levels because its just too far away procedurally.

00:39:59: I mean, in the pathways it takes a very long time and requires a lot of steps to make NAD from vitamin B three.

00:40:05: that's kind of the problem.

00:40:07: It's then just metabolized differently by-by the body because... Because th-the need isn't quite as acute

00:40:13: Exactly exactly.

00:40:14: And yeah So you can't trick this system easily too.

00:40:19: increase the level.

00:40:21: That applies to niacin and nicotinamide which are different forms of vitamin b III.

00:40:26: With niacin, maybe be careful if you say your going in with a high dose.

00:40:28: You'll get flush and just red and warm.

00:40:32: but I think everyone should try it once.

00:40:34: It's kind of fun.

00:40:35: But to have said that from like five hundred milligrams... ...you will actually always feel it If not used for it And are still quite sensitive at the beginning.

00:40:52: Yeah, it was

00:40:53: here on the neck

00:40:54: exactly my neck.

00:40:55: Was totally red

00:40:56: but It goes away again right after a certain amount.

00:40:58: forty five

00:40:59: minutes maybe.

00:40:59: Right many also do it in combination with a sauna just for the ultimate kick.

00:41:05: yeah The background there is the so heavy metals.

00:41:11: I think the background.

00:41:12: you sometimes Do that too?

00:41:14: So not Just specifically related to heavy metals But general detox.

00:41:17: There are some wild protocols floating around On the internet.

00:41:20: i've read about them two And that's exactly finished sauna and very high dose niacin.

00:41:29: Yeah, I wouldn't recommend it now right?

00:41:32: But but those are just a few experimental protocols.

00:41:35: let say that someone came up with and apparently It's actually done that way.

00:41:39: sometimes there also experience reports, but you definitely have to be

00:41:43: Well i imagine

00:41:44: very secure.

00:41:45: regarding your physiology Let's Say

00:41:48: yeah You should Definitely know That niacin first of all dilates the blood vessels, right?

00:41:52: That means you're already very very dilated.

00:41:55: I can imagine that some people just get circulatory problems from that and it also makes the skin itch a bit.

00:42:00: um And i think everyone knows that if you just start scratching once in the sauna then You scratch yourself the whole time.

00:42:08: so there's nothing worse.

00:42:10: and uh...I Think that combo could be really nasty But to be honest, I've never done that combo.

00:42:14: I just know niacine quite well Of

00:42:16: course Uh..and

00:42:17: th-that can also sometimes just be quite funny But anyway, that's just by the way.

00:42:22: Then what works really well in theory for boosting and has also worked really well on studies and also increased levels very significantly are nicotinamide riboside and nicotinoid mononucleotides.

00:42:32: so NR and NMN those of the two I'd say best known molecules in that space.

00:42:39: NMM is quite a bit more well-known than NR which i don't understand at all because there actually better data.

00:42:45: But still, that's how it is.

00:42:46: NMN was pushed through Sinclair who also pushed the topic very much?

00:42:50: I think on NR there are a lot of scientific data and in NM-N there're lots of popular science data.

00:42:59: It has appeared in books or magazines.

00:43:02: If you think about it in

00:43:05: U.S.,

00:43:05: where NAD supplements sometimes advertised by Kardashians That just gets more attention than than NR, although the study situation is very well not different in the outcomes but different in quantity.

00:43:22: Right?

00:43:22: NR has significantly better researched.

00:43:24: it was also patented by Chromadex and American Corporation that distributed Niogen And The patent has expired By now.

00:43:36: So

00:43:37: exactly or rather the patent hasn't expired?

00:43:40: It was an EU approval.

00:43:42: How it was approved.

00:43:43: there's always a grace period.

00:43:44: they allow like five years or so where you can't sell the same product because otherwise, its just.

00:43:50: Not worth.

00:43:51: going through this incredibly pointlessly complex European process is financially not worth for anyone.

00:43:58: that means um... They just want to have protection for few years and thats then similar medications uh.. So that this investment is worth.

00:44:08: And then they have like five years of protection, I think.

00:44:10: but it's not actually a patent.

00:44:11: It's an approval protection something like that Yeah or whatever.

00:44:14: okay so in any case.

00:44:17: But now to a very important point.

00:44:19: NR is approved in the EU as a dietary supplement Precisely because this process happened.

00:44:26: NMN is NOT and MN Is Not Approved In The EU?

00:44:29: And i Think That Can Be Said Very Clearly Although It Is Theoretically The More Well-Knowed Form And also is probably consumed ten times more in the EU than NR.

00:44:38: But it has not approved, It's a chemical and you just have to know that... Not a classic supplement!

00:44:44: Not yet.

00:44:45: NMN has become cheaper over time then NR.

00:44:50: NR has always remained very expensive because of this.

00:44:53: not patent but approval protection right?

00:44:55: That why prices remain high with NM& it simply became cheaper due Quantities, right?

00:45:03: So I think and in the end many people are also quite price sensitive.

00:45:07: And look at such a topic if you're a bit into the topic have been dealing with this space for a bit longer.

00:45:14: You've heard of both substances and then make your decision based on that among other things.

00:45:18: Right!

00:45:18: You have to see That too.

00:45:20: In The US i had already briefly hinted At that earlier their NMN was once approved as A supplement.

00:45:28: Then This Approval Was revoked When this drug, potential drug by David Sinclair was also registered.

00:45:36: Then the FDA said whoops but what is potentially approved as a drug must under no circumstances be a

00:45:44: supplement.".

00:45:45: But it wasn't really enforced right?

00:45:47: So the FDA released that and said okay NNMN actually not allowed to be sold as a supplement.

00:45:53: In reality, though everyone just kept selling it normally right and nobody got a letter from the FDA saying And tomorrow you please have to stop doing that.

00:46:02: That maybe You still have to add that

00:46:03: I think letters did come but then It was fought against.

00:46:06: so it Was already.

00:46:07: they did try To enforce it briefly But Then They didn't really go through with it?

00:46:20: That was also temporarily a drug in the

00:46:23: U.S.,

00:46:24: but it was then approved again because they realized, okay this is already being sold so widely as a supplement anyway makes total sense of the supplement.

00:46:31: why do we need to put a stop to that now and force against it?

00:46:35: Makes no sense.

00:46:37: And yeah The American Supplement Manufacturers all teamed up and founded somehow I think foundation really poured money into it.

00:46:46: But In any case That apparently worked.

00:46:49: That means NMN is no longer a chemical or rather, No longer a drug in that case but A supplement there again?

00:46:56: That means the way it's now clear for that to happen In the EU as well will probably also happen over The next few years.

00:47:01: currently however As I said a chemical and thats why There are usually no intake recommendations on the packaging Except except the brand Or the manufacturer breaks the law right And of course many do.

00:47:14: But in principle A chemical.

00:47:18: Yeah, that's important to know exactly.

00:47:19: and then there are NADH supplements Exactly.

00:47:24: That also ties in a bit with what we were talking about at the beginning right?

00:47:28: There is NAD H. both Are important for each other but NAD is also important from many other processes where NADh doesn't play an active role.

00:47:38: And The problem theirs that orally they're sometimes a bit unstable if the capsules aren't somehow enteric coated Um, or if you don't take it sublingually so that you don' t have that destruction process by stomach acid.

00:47:51: And um yeah basically there's also I mean their studies on.

00:47:55: they've also done them.

00:47:56: humans right from a safety profile are no big concerns.

00:48:01: the effects for healthy people aren't quite as quite as clear when it comes to the impact on NAD levels or whatever, because we're referring exactly... We've always simplified this a lot here.

00:48:14: To the NAD level and also talk about infusions in a moment.

00:48:19: but with NADH at least this effect that's been talking about all time wasn't really there

00:48:27: specifically?

00:48:28: Exactly so just don't annoy anyone It might be benefits But they're somehow measurable in a different way or not measurable at all.

00:48:38: It definitely has no impact on NAD levels, and that's really important because especially with this NAD hype... A huge number of people have suddenly jumped onto NADH supplements but there are absolutely nothing to do with boosting NAD And you just need to know it!

00:48:53: Most people don't.

00:48:54: Yeah I mean the packaging says it right?

00:48:57: Exactly NAD on it and that's why.

00:49:01: uh, its probably a bit hard to tell them apart sometimes.

00:49:04: So the other thing now is um, NAD infusions.

00:49:09: you'd also include those there.

00:49:14: Yeah we've talked about that a few times too right in the end It's like you can do an NAD Infusion And if you measure your NAD levels a few days later You'll barely see any effect.

00:49:27: That's at least what they found out in general.

00:49:34: NAD infusions are still barely researched, right?

00:49:37: There practically no studies on them.

00:49:38: and yet In every clinic you walk into everyone will tell you what an NAD Infusion can do.

00:49:44: Right that's kind of the divergence You still have.

00:49:48: And if you then ask and say oh but

00:49:53: yeah

00:49:55: Why does it do that?

00:49:56: Then comes the rationale with the NAD.

00:49:59: But at least isn't increased long term by an NAD infusion, right?

00:50:05: That's kind of that divergence you still have.

00:50:07: and if you then ask And say oh but why does it do that?

00:50:13: ?

00:50:13: Then comes a rational with the nad.

00:50:15: ,but the nady level is not done by an infusion Exactly!

00:50:19: That definitely doesn't go through all supplements And even purple mooses are some of them the end ball daily.

00:50:28: last move.

00:50:28: So if mice, the supplement our supplements is supple and zinc-affused.

00:50:32: If rectuses more it's what I don't know much as she ate its to core supplements.

00:50:35: if we choose supplements you put in just mother and done basis King an idea me through.

00:50:40: the energy infusion lands directly on the bloodstream.

00:50:44: You really get everything directly into all tissues right?

00:50:47: But we don't no at all.

00:50:48: there absolutely No studies There's not.

00:50:50: recently that was one and then another one from chromadex also with NR.

00:50:53: they gave nr and then said okay, nr also works with better intravenously.

00:50:57: Okay that might be the case.

00:50:58: it's obviously in their interest too but from my point of view would also be conceivable why.

00:51:05: because we've learned that nad is also very unstable right?

00:51:10: And its quickly broken down when its just given directly.

00:51:14: It a very large molecule isn't necessarily taken up very well intracellularly.

00:51:21: It probably just floats around, but doesn't actually do much because it can be taken up.

00:51:25: Because there's no direct NND transport into the cells.

00:51:27: But it actually has to be broken down in to NR for example or INTO-NN To Be Taken Up at All.

00:51:33: and that is a big catch where you really ask yourself huh?

00:51:38: Then again which also brings us back to that NR study Where NR infusions were given by Chromadex That NR Infusions apparently work better.

00:51:48: So let see how this develops.

00:51:49: now We're a bit skeptical and therefore say, yeah.

00:51:53: So you can do it?

00:51:54: And I can also imagine that in some cases It probably has benefits.

00:51:58: i don't want to rule That out at all.

00:51:59: there's actually A lot of anecdata Out There so anecdotal data that it Can have Benefits In Some Cases but why not go for the much cheaper and Much more researched product?

00:52:12: those are The supplements.

00:52:14: Why i mean i Don't get the argument.

00:52:16: i Have To Be Honest

00:52:18: especially if its Just About about the NAD Level where the data doesn't even support an NAD infusion.

00:52:26: In that respect, maybe there are other possible effects because many people describe and we've tested it ourselves when you infuse NAD... When you get an infusion like that then if it runs in too fast also this a bit of a numbing feeling so that manifests differently for everyone.

00:52:44: For me It was kind of uncomfortable feeling.

00:52:48: some feel like they have a bit of pressure on their chest.

00:52:51: That means there is an effect, something's happening in the body but nobody can explain to you what's happening either?

00:52:59: No,

00:53:00: apart from this rationale with the NAD level which isn't quite not quite consistent story that it still questionable And besides NAD infusions, there are also a few experimental pharmacological approaches.

00:53:14: If you look further into the future on one hand is what David Sinclair's doing with this modified NMN which is supposed to increase NAD and then other starting points.

00:53:26: we talked about CD-Thirty Eight today that is upregulated in inflammation.

00:53:34: Now an approach would be to say you want to inhibit the CD-Thirty-Eight.

00:53:37: from a few studies.

00:53:38: We know that Apeginin does that, for example.

00:53:41: Apegynin,

00:53:42: Luteolin...

00:53:43: Quercetin partly too.

00:53:45: but of course molecules are being investigated that do this with much higher affinity to CD-thirty eight.

00:53:51: so I'm much pro and more potent And then theoretically also approve as drugs

00:53:58: Exactly!

00:53:58: There's some preclinical data which doesn't look bad either.

00:54:03: Yeah, more about other endpoints than just the NAD level.

00:54:06: That should perhaps also be said.

00:54:07: that might be measured as well.

00:54:09: but then it's about having less inflammation in the body.

00:54:13: That is what CD-Thirty Eight inhibition is relevant for.

00:54:17: and there are PARP inhibitors double edge.

00:54:21: so right because on one hand you naturally want to have PARPs.

00:54:24: they're supposed to do DNA repair since PARPs consume NAD to inhibit PARPs.

00:54:31: And PARPs are actually already being inhibited, but not for the purpose of increasing NAD.

00:54:37: But in cancer therapy for some gynecological tumors when it comes to ovarian cancer For example right there our drugs Ola pad up?

00:54:45: That's such a PARP inhibitor.

00:54:48: Simply because you want to prevent a functioning DNA repair from also repairing tumor cells.

00:54:54: Right Because they have much higher turnover And the idea is always, okay.

00:54:59: Tumor tissue has a much higher cell turnover but if we inhibit DNA repair everywhere then the tumor cells die off faster because they have a higher turnover errors occur faster and eventually they are just cleared away.

00:55:11: But I can't imagine that this will ever catch on in the direction of...

00:55:15: Um i think there's also more exactly than that.

00:55:18: That is already therapy that it's supposed to support so that doesn't grow fast.

00:55:25: That's why it is not a curative therapy.

00:55:28: No, no that often also part of maintenance therapy or such a neo-driven chemotherapy right?

00:55:34: You can say exactly about NAD.

00:55:40: there was lots of technical terms.

00:55:41: I hope it wasn't too incomprehensible and if they are questions then at any time just comment under the episode.

00:55:56: We can of course still answer such questions there.

00:55:59: Would you perhaps like to give a nice conclusion on the NAD topic?

00:56:03: To finish up

00:56:05: Yes, so first of all if you dedicate yourself to NAD as I said it's more experimental than vitamin D or omega-three First ask yourself the question what do you need it for?

00:56:14: So you should have a certain goal because As i said It doesn't make sense to just senselessly take one supplement after another Or Do One infusion After Another if you don't know at all what you actually want to get out of it, right?

00:56:28: So imagine for yourself.

00:56:30: Okay maybe you want less brain fog.

00:56:33: okay then try it out.

00:56:34: yeah why not?

00:56:35: but then I would also say ideally to measure beforehand If You Can Afford It.

00:56:40: Why?

00:56:40: because Then You Just Know Where You Stood When You Hadn'T Taken Anything Yet and can Then Retest Every Now And Then In The Course Of Time.

00:56:46: See when my level was higher.

00:56:48: did i really feel better.

00:56:49: does that correlate with each other?

00:56:52: But yeah, I understand that this is sometimes already a bit too advanced for many.

00:56:56: That they don't actually want that much hassle but they just want to try it out.

00:57:00: okay then do it because there isn't really any data that somehow suggests Yeah!

00:57:06: That's bad for you.

00:57:06: um...that does something bad?

00:57:09: That's not the case.

00:57:09: You can take if its superfluous It will also be excreted again.

00:57:13: You can test it Uh...but as i said testing would be ideal Exactly And Then Yeah.

00:57:22: What, what would you choose?

00:57:24: I would say don't necessarily start with the NAD infusion but that's just my personal opinion because I just believe that data doesn't show why it's better now than just oral supplementation especially because oral supplementations can also be measured so much better and that is interesting.

00:57:39: So actually arrives in a lot of cells.

00:57:41: And thats how to do these measurements.

00:57:42: You measure intracellularly How much NAD is present Then i wonder Why should i do an infusion for four hundred euros If I could supplement for almost nine months.

00:57:56: For the same money,

00:57:57: so at four hundred euros you're still on the cheap side anyway?

00:58:01: Absolutely limit when it comes to when it come to any day.

00:58:05: quite expensive exactly and like i said You can just monitor over time.

00:58:08: you can look into It And Just See Okay How Does It Work For You?

00:58:11: Because In The End That's Exactly The Point.

00:58:14: We're Not Going To Have The Next Big Great Studies in The next Few Years Saying okay Hey Its Ideal For This Use Case that Probably Won't Happen In The Next five years.

00:58:23: That means you have to find a way for yourself and that's where we get this n equals one, just trying it out your self.

00:58:29: do I feel like its doing something for me?

00:58:31: can i somehow prove with the KPI performance metric?

00:58:35: And thats when everyone has

00:58:41: best equation, but other than that I have nothing more to add.

00:58:44: If there are any questions at home then just write comment podcast at beyondlifespan.de.

00:58:50: Just write an email or a comment somewhere.

00:58:53: we look all of it.

00:58:54: otherwise.

00:58:55: thank you so much for listening and watching.

00:58:58: We're already looking forward the next episode together.

00:59:02: At least i am

00:59:03: Me too Mario.

00:59:04: Thank You And Bye.