ADHD or Just Distracted? Dopamine, Hyperfocus and Late Diagnosis

00:00:00: We just have so many stimulants today that cause ADHD-like symptoms, That when you hear what ADHD is You quickly think I have ADHD.

00:00:11: It's also more or less proven that ADHD Is common especially in entrepreneurship Or among founders.

00:00:16: Can it even be dangerous if don't diagnose ADHD?

00:00:19: Because then... ...you might not get your lifestyle under control.

00:00:24: Young Lifespan One hundred and ninety-nine percent more initial diagnosis of ADHD in Germany since twenty fifteen.

00:00:33: That sounds like a crazy epidemic at first!

00:00:36: That could also be decades of underdiagnosis.

00:00:38: that is just catching up, both are partly true.

00:00:41: Tiktok and social media are full videos about signs of undiagnosed ADHD And sometimes it's even abused as an excuse for being late or just for unfocused work.

00:00:52: What happens neurobiologically?

00:00:54: Whether ADHD can also be beneficial... ...and how to treat it?

00:00:57: thats coming out todays episode.

00:00:58: At the end, there's also a biohack for everyone who can't wind down in the evening or get out of bed well.

00:01:04: Before we dive into this topic, I'd like to inform you that today is a special week!

00:01:10: We've redesigned our podcast to make it more effective.

00:01:28: During the entire first podcast week, up to and including September twenty-fourth.

00:01:33: You'll get a new episode every day.

00:01:35: in addition you have the opportunity To win the following prizes from our partner Molecular A shop voucher worth five hundred euros.

00:01:43: test package with The biological age test the vitamin D Test the omega three tests for four hundred sixty euros.

00:01:50: And the sleep package With no strips the relax complex and the sleep mask Worth ninety euros.

00:01:57: Here's how you can participate.

00:01:59: First, subscribe to the podcast.

00:02:02: Second leave us an honest written review on Apple podcasts or stars on Spotify.

00:02:07: And third take a screenshot of it and send us this screenshot either by email To podcast at beyondlifespan.de Or via Instagram to add Beyond Lifespan.

00:02:20: If you want to enter the draw twice tag our podcast in your instagram story.

00:02:25: You can also find the terms and conditions for The Giveaway in the show notes.

00:02:29: And now, thank you very much for your support... ...and have fun with the first episode!

00:02:34: Max would you say that you're one of those people who think they have a little bit of ADHD?

00:02:41: Of course I've thought about it.

00:02:44: Especially when you transitioned from school into adult life especially when you started working.

00:02:51: then So many impressions hit you then suddenly have so much more to do in college.

00:02:55: You just sat around all day, did something with friends and from the moment he really start working than the world does get a bit let's say more overwhelming And I would say that since them i've struggled with more things that might be ADHD like or in the direction of ADHD.

00:03:14: but wouldn't claim someone who has ADHD never had difficulties school.

00:03:19: I also didn't have difficulties with concentration.

00:03:22: I certainly had a very selective perception of what interests me and doesn't, which is also symptom right?

00:03:28: But i wouldn't claim that couldn't sit down work through those other topics anyway.

00:03:33: Otherwise it would've been difficult to get though college.

00:03:37: so in the sense no idon think ive ADHD but do you still thing this transition from real ADHD what people today would somehow describe as just a bit of inattentiveness, that this transition is very fluid.

00:03:53: And that's why many think maybe I have ADHD because the symptoms are similar?

00:03:58: The difference between someone who really has ADHD and doesn't... It's much harder for you to find the drive to get away from it.

00:04:09: There was a pretty diametrical difference.

00:04:11: That's why long story short- I don't think I had ADHD.

00:04:15: what you described in the second part couldn't also simply be a symptom of all these stimuli we have nowadays.

00:04:22: So from smartphones, from computers because there are far more stimuli hitting us than they used to be-all.

00:04:29: this accessibility that is has something too do with fact.

00:04:33: that way pay attention as simply shifted?

00:04:36: No absolutely!

00:04:37: That's basically I meant.. Of course i related it very strongly to adult life.

00:04:41: I had to organize myself a bit more, right?

00:04:47: But per se of course.

00:04:49: In the end they are super similar and we'll get that in moment when talk about mechanisms.

00:04:53: actually it's very similar mechanism.

00:04:56: if you're on your smart phone all day then have low dopamine as someone who has ADHD also tend to have a dopamine deficit.

00:05:05: That is why at the end its same symptoms this transition so fluid somewhere therefore difficult to differentiate And that's why this diagnosis actually belongs in really professional hands of someone who says okay, yes you probably have ADHD and no.

00:05:21: You can actually just adjust your life a little bit right?

00:05:23: And maybe adjust your behavior a little but an everyday life.

00:05:27: Basically what you said earlier is not that uncommon that ADHD sometimes In the vast majority of cases it's not, but sometimes its only noticed at a somewhat later point.

00:05:38: because especially during school years which is when ADHD actually occurs or first really becomes noticeable.

00:05:45: On one hand there's this inattentiveness on other hand can also be hyperactivity.

00:05:51: There are different forms these two and the vast majority of forms combined And specially during school year which is where ADHD occurs On the one hand there's this inattentiveness, on the other hand it can also be hyperactivity.

00:06:08: There are different forms actually these two and vast majority of forms combined.

00:06:12: only when support that you have from teaching staff parents falls away growing up earlier do an apprenticeship study stand on your own feet earn money then becomes noticeable.

00:06:28: ADHD compensation is no longer And that's exactly why you then only, than have these symptoms.

00:06:35: That appear where he didn't realize.

00:06:37: okay now things are kind of falling apart a bit and know I can no longer focus on this actually important thing.

00:06:42: so everyday life

00:06:43: which

00:06:44: yeah don't really bring joy to anyone right?

00:06:47: I find very fascinating too.

00:06:49: it is super rare to have adults who say wow i'm forty now and just received an ADHD diagnosis.

00:06:55: thats actually very uncommon because so much time has already passed in between and an important diagnostic criterion for ADHD is after all that it occurred in childhood, right?

00:07:03: So there has to be this connection to childhood.

00:07:05: Also these first indications that you couldn't concentrate well on school maybe were very good at some things, very bad at somethings... That has to present.

00:07:14: otherwise its not actually ADHD At least if go by the official guidelines.

00:07:20: And neurobiologically, I also found it quite fascinating with this spotlight analogy that we also picked out there.

00:07:26: So how would you explain to someone who has absolutely no clue about the topic what ADHD is?

00:07:31: Like how do people who have ADHD perceive the world?

00:07:35: Yeah so normally you can influence very well and just mention a spot light as an analogy where you point the spotlight of attention in different directions.

00:07:49: And if I want to concentrate on math right now, then i pointed at that.

00:07:53: Then for the next hour my attention is on math.

00:07:55: so and um... That is per se something also works with ADHD but just not as reliably.

00:08:01: So it can work If you find math totally awesome.

00:08:06: This spotlight works incredibly well.

00:08:09: It might even be much brighter than other people But if don't like math at all Quite opposite Constantly goes out.

00:08:17: That's like a power-outage that constantly happens and suddenly it's out again And then he goes back on or it rotates all the time and moves onto other topics, right?

00:08:24: I think i would even argue this feeling of The spotlight.

00:08:28: almost everyone knows that right.

00:08:30: also if you're really Really tired and You're trying to really penetrate a topic deeply But you just tired your somehow bit exhausted Then you have that problem too Right.

00:08:40: so you have the problem that you can't let.

00:08:41: the spot light isn't as focused It doesn't stay in one place.

00:08:46: It feels I can't fully relate to it one hundred percent, but that's what they say.

00:08:50: It feels like for someone who has ADHD because the spotlight is constantly pointing in other directions right and only with topics at a really really light on which there are.

00:08:59: you want to concentrate extremely hard intrinsically with those topics then shines really quite focused and that's very simplified analogy actually very vivid.

00:09:10: Now there's a second part to it, so this let's call executive suite or control module for the spotlight that sits in prefrontal cortex.

00:09:18: So relatively far forward on the brain and alot happens their lot is processed they're.

00:09:24: so impulse control takes place.

00:09:26: what does impulse control?

00:09:27: if you put a sweet in front of children will all reach food immediately as soon as its lying food in front of an animal, for example.

00:09:39: An untrained dog let's say.

00:09:40: then it will immediately run over there and eat up the food.

00:09:44: And impulse control is actually that you say I'm resisting The urge to devour this sweet croissant right now?

00:10:04: To constantly look somewhere else, right?

00:10:06: So that is also a kind of impulse when you say oh something Is moving here.

00:10:09: Right now and something is also moving Here right Now And You then in A way follow the Impulse to Look at this novelty or At This news and That is what In turn doesn't work so well There.

00:10:22: um so this breaking Of impulses and Also in a Way this prioritization to Say What is important now and What is not Important now And I think every one of us knows it, right?

00:10:34: You have important things throughout your daily life.

00:10:37: But i'll just use a tax return as an example...I Think It Would Make Sense If As Many People As Possible Did A Tax Return.

00:10:43: Still For The Largest Part Of The Population It's Certainly the Most Boring Thing you Can Imagine Right!

00:10:48: I would Probably Even Sign Off On That.

00:10:51: Still You Sit Down Take The Time Do It and Then Its Done.

00:10:56: And exactly this overcoming and getting yourself to sit down there now, to resist this impulse.

00:11:02: To do something else... Something more exciting!

00:11:04: Something more interesting that in turn doesn't work well with ADHD.

00:11:10: The reason why that doesn't works so well is dopamine.

00:11:15: Exactly we actually did a pretty in-depth episode on dopamine once before So of course We won't dive quite as deep here But we basically learned about dopamine as a neurotransmitter for reward.

00:11:28: right and um, We also know maybe many still remember this episode.

00:11:33: There are many substances out there that make dopamine shoot way up.

00:11:37: but Also in everyday life when you have some kind of accomplishment achieve something You've made me work toward That's good for your dopamine levels might push them At the same time when you're on your phone scrolling on instagram or linkedin wherever whatever, i'd say vice of choice is.

00:11:56: Dopamine stimulated there too but in a very constant and very simple way right?

00:12:01: And then u often have problem that fall into dopamine crash afterward.

00:12:06: right this dopamine crash problematic because all Neurons in the brain fire a bit more uncontrollably.

00:12:15: you become more impulsive because there's actually too little dopamine their right and That's the big downside.

00:12:22: You actually have less drive to achieve goals And your much more confused.

00:12:27: okay, what is the right goal now?

00:12:29: Right and that's why a dopamine deficiency or a low-dopamine level.

00:12:35: It just so annoying right?

00:12:36: I mean you actually want never wanna get into that situation and with ADHD it probably partly genetic that you tend to have a lower dopamine level as the baseline.

00:12:48: right.

00:12:49: You can still develop high dopamine levels with different tasks, but he really enjoy also of course computer games whatever so classic dopaminergic activities and also with alcohol and so on what do you have much lower base line?

00:13:01: And that's why we find it much harder to act in a goal oriented way.

00:13:06: That is I said probably genetic to not insignificant degree.

00:13:10: When someone is diagnosed, they also look very closely at what's it like with the parents right now.

00:13:16: Do they maybe have a potential history of ADHD or dopamine issues in the past?

00:13:21: And you can imagine that people who tend to low-dopamine levels are naturally always looking for dopaminergic activities again.

00:13:34: And if that's naturally something like math, which you have no interest in then it's definitely pushed aside immediately and just completely ignored.

00:13:40: No matter if you end up with an F or not right?

00:13:42: Um...and on the other hand If its maybe something like alcohol Or computer games or a smartphone You're much more susceptible to it because you get Much More I'd say gratification from It.

00:13:53: Right Because the dopamine Then suddenly spikes and gets To levels where actually wanted to be.

00:14:00: That is why it can even Be dangerous if a dhd goes undiagnosed because then you might not get your lifestyle under control.

00:14:08: quick interruption i'd like to remind once again of our giveaway from launch week up two and including september twenty-fourth.

00:14:15: You have the chance to win prizes for my partner molecular as the grand prize shop voucher worth five hundred euros at second price.

00:14:24: test package with four hundred sixty euros containing biological age tests vitamin D test omega three test And as the third prize, a sleep package worth ninety euros with The Sleep Mask No Strips and The Relax Complex.

00:14:39: Here's how you can enter Subscribe to our podcast Leave us rating on Spotify or an honest written review On Apple Podcasts.

00:14:47: Take a screenshot of it Send either by email To podcast at beyondlifespan.de Or via Instagram Add Beyond Lifespan.

00:14:59: If you want to be entered twice, share the podcast in your Instagram story as well and tag us.

00:15:04: You can also find all of our terms & conditions on the show notes.

00:15:08: Thank you so much for your support!

00:15:09: And enjoy the rest.

00:15:21: And with math, I'd say for a lot of people that's not the case.

00:15:32: That is why you simply have no desire to deal with it and also not enough impulse control.

00:15:37: just saying i'm going sit down now do this task then its done after that can do everything else again.

00:15:43: thats something sometimes still quite manageable during school years.

00:15:48: if Parents who for example say okay, no you're staying seated now and or I'll do the task with you right?

00:15:55: Who support and help you there.

00:15:56: You can manage it quite well not always And it also depends a bit on how much time you actually have to guide The kids through all these tasks preparing for tests and so one and so forth.

00:16:07: But that's why it can be masked For a certain period of time.

00:16:11: you already mentioned that a large part is genetic.

00:16:13: It actually is very large.

00:16:15: in twin studies I'll say eighty and ninety percent where they found that ADHD has a very, very strong genetic component.

00:16:27: Then they looked at again in adults.

00:16:29: when did it?

00:16:29: purely based on external assessment.

00:16:31: so not letting people saying themselves do you have ADHD yes or no?

00:16:35: but really having someone from the outside look how this person behaves.

00:16:39: are these symptoms with ADHD shows?

00:16:41: Yes or No?

00:16:42: then even an adult is still seventy-eighty percent.

00:16:47: So really a super, super big genetic component especially if you have ADHD yourself.

00:16:53: Definitely keep that in mind when you have children so that you look out for the first symptoms in your Children early enough.

00:17:00: You also said The people who Have ADHD.

00:17:04: they're always kind of striving For anything That brings dopamine right?

00:17:09: That's Also the reason why People with ADHD have traffic accidents more often are much, much riskier in their daily lives.

00:17:16: They lose their jobs faster and more often they also break up with other people much more frequently because a lot of that is just certain kind of impulse control right?

00:17:26: I mean with the job saying oh well then i'll just quit.

00:17:30: That's an impulse at first Right.

00:17:33: And if you have good impulse control Then think about it reflect on It.

00:17:39: Okay maybe You can still make it work somehow.

00:17:42: maybe my dissatisfaction in the situation can sometimes still be ironed out a bit, so that means you bring a lot of thought into it.

00:17:48: A person with ADHD would just say relatively quickly yeah no bye right like forget.

00:17:52: I'll try my luck elsewhere.

00:17:54: and as i said you can recognize that everywhere daily life not only necessarily this inattentiveness meaning that you cant concentrate well on some things but also quick frustration when something doesn't work that you then give up relatively quickly and say, Oh no.

00:18:11: I can't do this it's not working.

00:18:13: so that You also very quickly make a very absolute judgment about yourself when your Not good at something right?

00:18:19: Then Your just quote-unquote crappy edit.

00:18:21: but That is Something someone else looking At It from the outside would never Say Right.

00:18:26: they'd say well Just try it Do it three more times And then you Can do it just as Well As anyone Else.

00:18:31: So those are all things that run Through daily life Which Is Also why Treatment Is Started in Many Cases because Simply, simply necessary.

00:18:40: But now it doesn't just have disadvantages but in certain areas there are also advantages to having ADHD.

00:18:51: Exactly so you probably can't necessarily say across the board that people who have ADHD Are necessarily somehow less successful or anything right?

00:19:01: They're just.

00:19:01: they might also serve a different evolutionary purpose.

00:19:04: I don't know.

00:19:06: So it's definitely the case that I kind of explain this at the beginning with the spotlight analogy.

00:19:13: In the end, from the moment someone who has ADHD actually likes what they're doing... ...they can really get hyper-focused and then they really crave dopamine right?

00:19:26: And really dive into it!

00:19:28: That is also more or less proven.

00:19:32: especially in entrepreneurship but also founders.

00:19:35: ADHD is more common, right?

00:19:37: And that these are people who tend to just have ADHD more often and a bit more impulse driven but also.

00:19:45: More risk tolerant.

00:19:47: at the same time though That doesn't necessarily mean this business will run better in the long-run.

00:19:51: you have to say that too.

00:19:53: But they definitely start them more often right because they really lock onto one thing and don't necessarily doubt it either, that's just their business.

00:20:12: And on the other hand someone who approaches these topics much more rationally will say okay wait a minute but I still can support my family.

00:20:18: i need this job somehow needed to go all in here especially when starting your business is something where you sometimes have to be radical.

00:20:28: so time is even there.

00:20:35: And another topic which is certainly connected to that, it's simply the topic of openness.

00:20:39: Flexibility... They're just people who are much more relaxed when things don't go their way they were supposed to do.

00:20:47: Their more open in everyday life and comes into social relationships or I'd say a bit more flexible right?

00:20:56: That also has human advantage.

00:20:58: you can naturally be more outgoing But yeah, so it's a double-edged sword right you have to be honest about that.

00:21:07: It really is a double edged sword.

00:21:09: I also found that statistic about entrepreneurship Really interesting?

00:21:11: Right?

00:21:12: So they start more often but the businesses are less successful in the end because They exactly because they just fail More often.

00:21:19: That's then in a way that inattentiveness again, right that You probably just neglect certain aspects where you say Yeah, that's not so important right now

00:21:27: Exactly

00:21:29: And that these hyper focus phases.

00:21:31: That's the other side of a coin, what again?

00:21:34: A lot people who have ADHD describe they can really lose themselves in a topic for hours.

00:21:41: and thats flipside because this getting lost certain tasks and assignments means others are then simply neglected.

00:21:49: so you don't manage to keep big picture but your very good at some area where you can dive deep

00:21:57: totally.

00:21:59: If we stay with the statistics for a moment, I also found it quite interesting and this brings us to the way I am with other people of focus, concentration and creativity.

00:22:35: So you feel a bit numbed?

00:22:37: That would be let's say English term for it.

00:22:40: Totally!

00:22:43: It is worth treating there.

00:22:45: another statistic because people with diagnosed but inadequately managed ADHD men die almost seven years earlier.

00:22:57: eight point six years.

00:23:00: And the difference is not classically, the currently most common reasons why someone dies like cardiovascular disease and cancer but it's almost always things that have to do with risk so either its accidents or suicides.

00:23:15: Suicides are actually also much more common in people with undiagnosed ADHD because In many cases those are also impulsive decisions right?

00:23:24: That means you shouldn't forget.

00:23:27: On the other hand, certain mental illnesses are also much more common in people with ADHD.

00:23:32: You're often depressed and have a substance problem that makes total sense because drinking alcohol or drugs give you dopamine which means your chasing that dopamine rush.

00:23:45: That's why at the end of course there is higher risk for developing an addiction like this.

00:23:51: So depression and anxiety disorders are all four to five times more common.

00:23:57: That's a big, I mean much more common right?

00:23:59: Usually you talk about like twenty percent more common thirty percent.

00:24:02: More common.

00:24:03: here It's four hundred to five hundred percent more coming and Exactly so.

00:24:07: depression anxiety disorders that's all.

00:24:09: yeah for two-five times more common That's it big.

00:24:11: i'm in much more Common right?

00:24:13: usually You talked About Like Twenty percent More Common.

00:24:15: Thirty Percent More Common.

00:24:16: Here it's Four Hundred To Five Hundred Percent more Common.

00:24:18: Yeah.

00:24:18: But I think it also just makes when you When you get dopamine again it Makes sense Again.

00:24:22: Right I mean, everyone knows the next day after drinking.

00:24:24: Right?

00:24:24: You might not have just slept worse but you also have low dopamine right.

00:24:29: and impulse control also means thoughts negative thoughts that might not even have a logical reason like

00:24:33: intrusive thoughts

00:24:35: exactly.

00:24:35: so Also really like racing thoughts That you might think about for an hour.

00:24:40: They just shoot in all of a sudden.

00:24:41: It's this anxiety And that is related to dopamine.

00:24:45: So it makes total sense To me.

00:24:46: depression and anxiety disorders are more common Because suddenly can't control certain thought patterns anymore which actually make no sense at all.

00:24:54: And when you talk to someone about it and they talked through rationally with, yeah that really makes no sense.

00:24:59: but still like this impulse comes into your head... You can't get rid of it right?

00:25:06: I think its also totally logical.

00:25:08: so in the end.. That's what i meant at the beginning.

00:25:10: thats why i used to think about this term ADHD.

00:25:12: Also when we were still in college i was thought isn´t that just inattention?

00:25:17: I have less control over my daily life.

00:25:22: There's certainly also a very strong genetic component, but it's actually the same thing only.

00:25:27: It is much harder for you to influence yourself right?

00:25:29: Much harder than other people who can really learn more easily.

00:25:34: just let go of these negative effects.

00:25:37: But your someone that might have to think about treating because otherwise You get stuck in this negative spiral.

00:25:45: So pretty fascinating.

00:25:47: In the end what always decides whether a level of suffering and an actual functional impairment.

00:25:53: so if you notice that the adhd really interferes with your daily life that it causes you to.

00:26:00: Whatever end your relationships faster lose your job faster maybe not have sufficient income as result then those are all things already severely limit functioning.

00:26:10: let's say than you should definitely think about in the end is always each person own decision anyway, but yeah just to have mentioned because that comes across Strongly if you only watch social media videos right which for many nowadays is the primary source of information for everything no matter it's health or news whatever.

00:26:33: That's why, yeah.

00:26:34: The second thing that becomes so noticeable is that many people have ADHD.

00:26:39: now.

00:26:39: it's not just the official diagnostic statistics that I mentioned at the beginning right?

00:26:44: It has shot up almost two hundred percent of the diagnoses and ADHD diagnosis since twenty fifteen in Germany.

00:26:51: And there i would also ask myself well because it gets more attention Because its such a trendy diagnosis anyone who can't concentrate anymore Quickly gets that label slapped on.

00:27:03: or are they actually illnesses?

00:27:05: That are becoming more common.

00:27:07: Yeah, because maybe they weren't Diagnosed as often in the past.

00:27:11: right that phenomenon exists with many illnesses

00:27:14: yeah.

00:27:15: So I think in the end if you know that ADHD exists and You might not have really had that on your radar As someone who was our age sixty years ago then Then today you go to the doctor within issue like that and say hey can help me somehow Right because I can't get things together anymore or i have difficulties.

00:27:33: Um, six years ago that probably wouldn't necessarily been the case right and in this safety net which is certainly much better today than at that time.

00:27:41: um probably would not be there either.

00:27:43: And uh... In that respect..I do believe we also said it's more common.

00:27:51: It apparently isn't.

00:27:52: There are very interesting data on that.

00:27:54: That actually hasn't really become significantly more common If you look at it soberly.

00:27:59: But it's diagnosed more often because people have it on their radar, right?

00:28:02: And because doctors also have it in the radar.

00:28:04: It kind of takes both.

00:28:06: there Also has to be a doctor who is then willing to say okay yes that's ADHD.

00:28:11: So they just had to do this safety net.

00:28:14: and on the other hand Of course There also has to awareness among population.

00:28:17: Okay This almost not natural for me anymore.

00:28:20: I really need some help with this.

00:28:23: You only have if you know That exists.

00:28:27: I do believe that it's actually not more common, but you could of course argue that ADHD-like symptoms have become much more common.

00:28:39: And i would definitely agree with that based on anecdotes.

00:28:43: for now

00:28:45: Just because like i said earlier so many people think okay i'm just a little distracted oh i must have some form of ADHD Must be ADHD right?

00:28:54: So its often dismissed and sometimes It's just not fair to people who actually have the condition because they have to struggle with real limitations and with, with real problems.

00:29:06: And then it sometimes kind of laughed off by just saying yeah I just have a little ADHD right?

00:29:13: Even though they've never consulted a doctor about even thought what does actual symptomatology look like?

00:29:21: So just this inattentiveness nowadays, which a lot of people have because our attention span as they say so often.

00:29:26: Right?

00:29:27: It's not or it's no longer than three seconds and if you're thinking about an ad yourself then the hook has to be on first three second so that people want keep watching otherwise they scroll past right.

00:29:38: That is also symptoms at times but not really a symptom of ADHD.

00:29:43: What I found interesting was difference between men & women Because men are much more often this, or I'll say male adolescents and children.

00:29:52: Are much more of in this hyperactive type.

00:29:55: that means these our people who actually stand out right because in class let's see they just stand up Just walkout can't sit still are constantly nervous somehow And can't can't really control themselves Let's say and women are more the inattentive type.

00:30:13: That doesn't mean that you just get up from your desk, but that you're just eighty percent somewhere else with your thoughts during class.

00:30:21: Right they really exactly a bit daydreamy and very quickly focusing attention on things might have nothing to do.

00:30:28: the current situation ultimately leads to getting diagnosis.

00:30:32: so women get diagnosed four years later than men simply because of these differences in types although at some point I think The most common form is the combined one, where you're inattentive on the one hand and then also hyperactive at times.

00:30:48: That means it doesn't remain stable throughout your whole life either.

00:30:51: but the reason why its later for women is just that inattendiveness is noticed later than hyperactivity right?

00:30:58: Because with inattemptive you think yeah okay otherwise she's not particularly conspicuous behavior.

00:31:04: She can't remember things so well or as bad in school maybe a bit late And then I think you try for a very long time with some support methods before even thinking of something like that.

00:31:15: That is also very, very interesting and thats why i think this visibility actually quite good.

00:31:20: as your already said the assumption it's not a fad diagnosis in true sense but just many people had ADHD in past its awareness higher today similar to mental illnesses.

00:31:36: we brought figure showing The real prevalence is estimated to be somewhere between two and four percent, right?

00:31:42: So two or four in a hundred people.

00:31:44: Which it's actually not that... I mean It still comparatively certainly a common illness Or a common condition But its still not crazy common.

00:31:52: And i think with as much you hear about now You do get the feeling That Its more common Right!

00:31:59: And it definitely isn't.

00:32:00: And thats definitely also very interesting.

00:32:05: What would also like To say About In the end?

00:32:09: Yes, there is this more visibility and that's a good thing at first also certainly for diagnostics.

00:32:14: And so on.

00:32:14: you even think of it but off course that in turn also leads to i think many people as u mentioned the beginning using an excuse because well I just have ADHD was never diagnosed.

00:32:28: you believe about yourself if go into everyday life with basic attitude say okay then of course many of these underlying problems are no longer addressed by you because basically see the world that way.

00:32:42: okay i have to filter on.

00:32:43: now i have a d hd so it's completely normal that i always arrive an hour late but I somehow don't hand things in on time that account cope at work and whatever, That is, I think then again something that can be critically argued.

00:33:09: why this whole ADHD hype is certainly also a bit too hyped?

00:33:12: because today you have so many stimulants that cause ADHD like symptoms.

00:33:18: Like smartphones and so on.

00:33:21: um...that when you hear what ADHD is You quickly think i have ADHD right?

00:33:27: So I would just throw that out there Because yeah sure everyone knows these symptoms Right Everyone has had them at some point Maybe not you?

00:33:34: You're probably the least ADHD person I know, but still it quickly becomes a buzzword and an everyday.

00:33:42: I said ADHD person.

00:33:44: recently i heard talk business.

00:33:46: ADHD when you are constantly seeing shiny objects wanting to do something new is also topic right?

00:33:54: It's similar to ADHD doesn't really do justice

00:33:57: because dynamic Many people today are simply addicted to their phones, right?

00:34:03: Let's stick with the classic example of constantly reaching for your phone.

00:34:07: That doesn't really have to do with you having no impulse control and not being able to resist it but rather that you're simply addicted too.

00:34:16: It write Your body is addicted or your brain is addicted to the dopamine that's released by scrolling on social media And that doesn't mean You Have ADHD Right.

00:34:25: instead The Dopamine spikes briefly then drops back down And then, of course the body wants another hit of dopamine.

00:34:31: That's very classic mechanism behind every addiction.

00:34:34: we know whether that is food social media gambling or whatever.

00:34:39: it always the same.

00:34:40: with ADHD though differences this dopamine level as you already said generally at a slightly lower level and actually brings us to therapy.

00:34:50: because in therapy administer these stimulants there are two different mechanisms.

00:34:57: The very classic methylphenidate, many might know it by the name Ritalin.

00:35:01: Probably most people listening today have heard of that.

00:35:05: and what does it basically do?

00:35:07: It ensures in the synaptic cleft between two nerve cells.

00:35:12: so when a signal transmission takes place then its like two let's say nerve endings and there is a synaptick cleft in-between.

00:35:25: you need a certain concentration of dopamine in this synaptic cleft for signal transmission to take place, to a significant extent at all.

00:35:35: And people with ADHD that's sometimes much lower.

00:35:39: and these stimulants then simply ensure more dopamine is released into the synaptick cleft so that the signal transmission can work better.

00:35:49: There also another approach because dopamine usually only in the synoptic clef very short time between these nerve cells and is then immediately broken down again.

00:35:59: And now there are also other medications that ensure that dopamine is not broken down so quickly, So they practically block the reuptake.

00:36:07: a similar principle Is used for depression right?

00:36:10: There it's usually serotonin where The concentration in the synaptic cleft is too low Let's say in quotation marks, simple principle and the medications that do this.

00:36:29: They are super old.

00:36:31: I mean Ritalin has been around or methylphenidate have been around forever.

00:36:35: even The first depression medications Have been around for ever.

00:36:39: so That mechanism you can control it relatively well let's Say.

00:36:44: And then with that You raise people With ADHD when It comes to This dopamine concentration back To a level that is normal In A non-ADHD brain and that then facilitates this impulse control.

00:37:00: And it also makes something very, very boring seem rewarding again.

00:37:04: so you simply stick with it can still carry out.

00:37:10: Conversely its not.

00:37:11: like people who don't have ADHD I think everyone went to college has heard at certain times and is done today.

00:37:21: Ritalin was abused a bit so that you could concentrate better, especially during exam phase.

00:37:27: And a lot of different pills are somehow popped and then.

00:37:32: but it's not even necessarily the case as some studies have looked into right?

00:37:38: It is actually only small optimum in quotation marks.

00:37:51: Too much is bad and too little as bad.

00:37:52: people with ADHD have to little.

00:37:54: And you have too much if use Ritalin, a healthy person for example.

00:37:58: right.

00:37:58: so that doesn't actually result in any real really better attention.

00:38:02: at least none of it could be measured.

00:38:04: some studies

00:38:05: Yeah Right yeah absolutely correct probably.

00:38:08: So its definitely something You Have To Practice See If It Even Works For You Before You Pop It For An Exam.

00:38:15: So it's definitely not quite as trivial.

00:38:18: As you might think, but okay I mean um i could imagine an easy case would probably be that You can definitely fix your anxiety with a pretty well what?

00:38:27: What do we also have to say about things like ritalin and stuff is That they're also amphetamines.

00:38:34: so It's also something that Is definitely addictive right.

00:38:37: so it's not A fun drug that you just pop Right.

00:38:41: Um its Definitely Something Also, also long term.

00:38:46: Yeah it should just be kept in mind that It's addictive right you?

00:38:50: Just have to know That.

00:38:52: and And that's why modafinal is often used as an alternative especially for adults who actually just Have a lack of concentration because the problem there is actually very similar, right?

00:39:15: And Modafinil basically just ensures that you have more dopamine in the synaptic cleft again.

00:39:20: That's used by a lot of special forces and stuff now also off-label for ADHD which is quite interesting but not as addictive in quotation marks.

00:39:33: But anything that stimulates dopamine is addictive In some way.

00:39:39: It depends on how quickly the active ingredient kicks in, I'd say because.

00:39:45: In the past people very often just use normal Ritalin or Normal Methylphenidate and nowadays we have these extended release formulas.

00:39:53: that just means that the active Ingredient is released more slowly so you don't immediately go.

00:39:59: okay i'm taking.

00:40:00: i'm Taking the pill now And within a few minutes The effect already starts but rather That it's A slow onset.

00:40:05: this Means the body doesn't get used to This dopamine rush at At the push of a button or click like they did in the mouse studies where it comes out immediately, but instead It learns.

00:40:16: okay.

00:40:16: I'm taking something now and it won't help me for four few hours.

00:40:20: That doesn't mean that no addiction can develop from it But just much less often.

00:40:24: there are also other medications that don't target dopamine, but rather nor epinephrine.

00:40:29: That's i'd say these somewhat newer way of treating ADHD.

00:40:32: thats atom oxytane unfortunately?

00:40:35: I don't know the well-known brand name right now.

00:40:37: It's probably also quite well known.

00:40:39: That's because it is not as stimulating, but instead just helps with sharpening focus and doesn't make you particularly hyperactive that's the wrong term for it But its simply not stimulating And therefore has a significantly lower potential for addiction.

00:40:57: I start today.

00:40:59: tomorrow everything will be fine.

00:41:01: Rather takes longer time before effect even unfolds.

00:41:05: basically not a bad thing, right?

00:41:08: Because you actually have more stable quote unquote treatment for it.

00:41:12: And what we've completely left out so far are all the non-medicinal things that also help with ADHD.

00:41:18: You can do behavioral therapy and certain coaching or psychoeducation.

00:41:22: That has to be the same purpose which is helping through everyday life in a structured way.

00:41:29: If I cant concentrate on anything because my attention already somewhere else then a calendar will definitely help me.

00:41:37: Then, A fixed routine helps me so that I say okay i'll link something I don't like doing to something I do like doing So That I Don't Forget It or Neglect it right?

00:41:47: Very very basic things Like setting up external reminders Having a watch that reminds you of certain fixed points in the day That's all super helpful.

00:41:57: When your own brain lets You down In its executive function Which is actually has All Of that can Help.

00:42:05: That definitely makes sense.

00:42:06: And in many cases, that's then accompanied by drug treatment with the medications we've already

00:42:14: described.".

00:42:15: It wasn't so exciting!

00:42:16: Maybe

00:42:16: still generally on-treatment?

00:42:18: So who says ideally you get an ADHD diagnosis relatively early in life... ...in the ideal case and now if your a parent have child might be affected You'd think okay wait a minute those are amphetamines.

00:42:33: Wow should I really give it to my child?

00:42:35: And the study situation is actually such that we're not experts on this, right?

00:42:38: But we've obviously done our research.

00:42:41: The study situation apparently is such starting early definitely always better because usually especially when you start very early... When the brain still shows a lot of neuroplasticity.

00:42:52: So up to age twelve it's particularly strong This neuroplasticity.

00:42:57: If you start particularly early It's tendentially better for further course Because even be able to retrain the brain so that it functions like a quote unquote normal brain, right?

00:43:08: So.

00:43:09: The earlier you start, the better actually.

00:43:12: and that's also the current opinion consensus and also how its currently uh... How-how is currently frequently prescribed and also used.

00:43:19: Right!

00:43:20: You shouldn't drive yourself crazy about It.

00:43:22: There can Actually Even Be A Certain Restructuring Process in the Brain And That's Something That Doesn't Really Work Anymore In Adulthood And you should just keep that in mind and not drive yourself crazy.

00:43:32: Okay, those are amphetamines?

00:43:33: No it does make sense to do that with children too but then really follow through on an off right.

00:43:40: Moving now onto the new segment we have The Community Hotline.

00:43:46: We actually got a question about ADHD.

00:43:48: It was very long time ago specifically on episode we did about dopamine I think probably half year ago And we're now going to pick one question from the community in every episode each week.

00:44:03: So at this point, definitely a call-to action for you to write your questions and comments if you have any.

00:44:09: it can also be about other topics.

00:44:10: that doesn't have to relate purely with who's topic so feel free to leave a comment.

00:44:18: We are turning our attention to Francisca who sent us the following question I'm forty Was diagnosed with ADHD three months ago.

00:44:28: in school I never had major problems.

00:44:31: can you really only get ADHD as an adult or was something just overlooked for years.

00:44:38: We've actually already anticipated a bit of that right?

00:44:42: You said it briefly earlier, In the diagnostic criteria for ADHD It actually states very clearly That you must have relevant symptoms before the age of twelve.

00:44:52: so four No one.

00:44:53: does ADHD really just start at thirty, right?

00:44:57: Because the time delay.

00:44:59: So this time in between is simply too long still.

00:45:03: of course there are.

00:45:05: I'm talking about those compensated forms we mentioned right at the beginning.

00:45:09: Yes exactly i mean.

00:45:10: on one hand women tend not to have that hyperactivity part Right so it often goes unnoticed because people Just think oh she's just a bit scatterbrained sometimes you know and That's also something Right, so I wouldn't necessarily worry too much about it.

00:45:26: And parents probably would say okay she needs to see a doctor and get this checked out right?

00:45:31: So that can be one thing um...and the other is what we also touched on at beginning where i talked bit of my journey saying ok sure you think whether have but..i don't thinks now But definitely got worse for short period as i got older That coping mechanisms might had from your parent's house like having structure eating at the same time every day, and whatever maybe being supported at home when it came to studying.

00:46:01: And being forced to okay now you're doing math?

00:46:03: When all of that suddenly disappears It can get a lot worse... ...and then those coping mechanisms are gone.

00:46:11: Still its generally unusual That You Can't Really Trace Back To Childhood Right.

00:46:17: What We Don't Know Of Course Is If Francisco Maybe also had some recent changes in her family situation, because for many people they can still compensate relatively well at work.

00:46:31: Because you realize okay I might have a bit of an attention problem and many people naturally become a bit more structured maybe just automatically with calendars reminders so on... They know that about themselves but as soon Predictability just isn't there anymore with kids, right?

00:46:51: Especially with toddlers.

00:46:53: So that's definitely something to keep in mind.

00:46:57: We'd also be very interested To hear how you guys see this.

00:47:02: if You've ever looked into ADHD yourselves we're Also putting a little poll on Spotify.

00:47:07: so for everyone listening On spotify feel free to check out the pole and leave your opinion There.

00:47:20: at The beginning I promised A quick bio hack For I think i phrased it like for anyone who has trouble falling asleep at night and can't really get going in the morning.

00:47:31: This is a particularly big topic with adhd because they found out that almost eighty percent of adults with adhd have a delayed melatonin rhythm.

00:47:41: Melatonin is the sleep hormone.

00:47:43: Of course, it's also available as a supplement but basically in the body It's the sleep hormones and that means when it rises we have high enough sleep pressure And we fall asleep.

00:47:55: That's normal process happens to everyone.

00:47:58: for almost eighty percent of people with ADHD its delayed by about ninety minutes.

00:48:04: you have to realize thats alot right?

00:48:05: Delayed by an hour-and-a-half If that starts for me at ten

00:48:08: p.m.,

00:48:10: or a similar adult, the sharp rise in melatonin doesn't start until eleven thirty p. m.. Which ultimately ensures you can fall asleep and have restful sleep.

00:48:21: That's not nothing!

00:48:23: So what I could do about it now?

00:48:24: Well... take melatonin.

00:48:28: that's also a great option.

00:48:29: i mean you know there are numerous products out there and it is not expensive.

00:48:33: You can use really well for jet lag.

00:48:35: I think this even health claim if im not mistaken, just means your kind of mimicking that impulse from the brain that melatonins should be released now.

00:48:45: right you mimic but do with a pill then probably have sleep cycle that kicks in earlier.

00:48:52: normally This melatonin impulse is actually triggered by, say in the morning.

00:48:58: you get up at a certain time.

00:48:59: You get the first rays of sunlight in your eyes so to speak and the body realizes okay it's daytime now right?

00:49:05: And that basically sets your circadian rhythm for the day.

00:49:08: we actually did a sleep episode on that.

00:49:10: So definitely listen to that if you're interested.

00:49:13: Anyway!

00:49:13: The earlier you start this daily rhythm... ...the early Melatonin tends be released.

00:49:20: But obviously, if you have ADHD that's sometimes delayed and in turn shifts the whole rhythm.

00:49:26: And above all—and this is also a problem–you get less restful sleep because the sleep phases shift too right?

00:49:33: So ideally... You can try to see whether melatonin helps you….

00:49:38: What we'd additionally recommend would be getting light in the morning.

00:49:42: That's cool!

00:49:43: Because it sets the rhythm for day so-to speak.

00:49:47: The only problem is, it's unfortunately not as effective in shifting sleep phases.

00:49:52: In the case of ADHD at least according to our research.

00:49:56: exactly because in this study they compared both so melatonin on one hand and this light therapy on the other And Both were very well suited to shift this sleep cycle forward So to shift it forward by those one-and-a-half hours But To actually improve those ADHD symptoms Melatonin was more effective than pure light therapy.

00:50:17: that I found really interesting.

00:50:20: still both help to get a different daily rhythm.

00:50:23: It totally depends.

00:50:25: if i don't have to be in the office until nine thirty then it probably doesn't matter much.

00:50:29: but, Then something like that is very relevant.

00:50:37: That you make sure to align your sleep cycle with that so it fits daily life, right?

00:50:43: Because if somewhere let's say in health care or a clinic for example whether as doctor and nursing administration then just there at seven o'clock in the morning If you're an OR even earlier You won't be able change jobs because another hospital its same.

00:51:00: That means you have to manage it yourself and see that you arrange your sleep so that you wake up as refreshed as possible in the morning.

00:51:07: And that's where either melatonin or this light therapy, especially for people with ADHD can definitely help.

00:51:16: I'll summarize a bit of what we talked about today because... In the end, I think ADHD is much more complex than sometimes seems on social media—that's the case with many things.

00:51:25: We also noticed that with cortisol face, that this puffy face which is also claimed on TikTok to be a sign that you have too much stress or two higher cortisol level.

00:51:36: We already debunked in quotes and it's definitely very exciting topic, like I said just think of the number... Two-and-a-half percent of population are affected by ADHD.

00:51:51: even though diagnosis rate still much lower There's still a lot of potential to, let's say diagnose it and then also treat accordingly if treatment is even necessary.

00:52:02: But we can't prescribe that here on the podcast anyway but you always have to look at individual situation.

00:52:11: We would be very happy If You sent us your questions.

00:52:15: Feel free to email or comment on Spotify.

00:52:19: Like I said, we're doing this community hotline in every episode now.

00:52:23: At the end there's always a matching biohack to go with it and of course We can only do that With your input.

00:52:28: so please check It out.

00:52:30: feel free To look In The comments section And also don't forget Get at the poll on whether You've ever dealt with the topic Of adhd yourself?

00:52:36: We definitely be very interested.

00:52:38: Do you have anything to add max?

00:52:39: i Have nothing more to add.

00:52:41: Thank you for the nice conversation.

00:52:43: Wonderful thank you max!

00:52:45: Thank you at home For listening.

00:52:46: i'm looking forward

00:52:51: Two doctors on longevity and biohacking.